PORC table in DB_Templates_12

[valvegas1]

Vegas, I looked at the PORC table while having coffee this morning. There's nothing wacky going on here, it's just math.

You have the position high value (PRDH) and low value (PRDL)

1) Add up the total values in each row (do not include prdh, prdl or ppos obviously) This is the "total weight" I guess you might call it

2) Each point of weight = PRDH/Total weight

3) For each rating in this table its max value = step 2 * weight for that rating

4) Madden bases ratings on high value being 99 (or some cases 100) but 50 is considered 0 for getting a players overall.
so the actual overall portion for this table is step 3 / 50

5) Actual player's rating - 50 * value from step 4 give the portion of the overall for that particular rating

Example "QB"
1) total weight 4 + 3.5 + 3.0 + 1.5 + .5 + .5 + .5 = 13.5
2) 89/13.5 = approx 6.59 (I'm just using 2 decimal places for example)
3) table's Throw accuracy weight 4 * 6.59 = 26.36
4) 26.36/50 = .53
5) overall portion for QB THA rating You take QB's (THA-50) * value from step 4
So if player has 95 THA (95-50) * .53 = 23.85 added to players overall

Since the minimum value is set at either 35 or 60 based on players position. Then you would add 35 or 60 to the total after adding up all the ratings used for overall.

Madden amp didnt account for injury being part of overalll, and tried to make up for the discrepancy by adding differing amounts to the minimums. I will look into fixing the overall calculator for madden amp.

Thank you very much for this info...should prove very useful in my testing...It was 2-4am when I discovered all this so I was a bit to sleepy to try and figure it all out...I noticed all the positions have a different total weight so I'm going to do some experiments with this file and see what happens when we start manipulating all these numbers...much appreciated mate

EDIT: after looking over this formula I am still left wondering how having differnet ratings at awareness or throw power is effecting the amout of change the throw accuracy is creating?

[StingRay68]

Thank you very much for this info...should prove very useful in my testing...It was 2-4am when I discovered all this so I was a bit to sleepy to try and figure it all out...I noticed all the positions have a different total weight so I'm going to do some experiments with this file and see what happens when we start manipulating all these numbers...much appreciated mate

EDIT: after looking over this formula I am still left wondering how having differnet ratings at awareness or throw power is effecting the amout of change the throw accuracy is creating?

Equation is wrong, tried plugging all this into madden amp and am not getting same results as what the rosters say for certain players.
Thought it was ok until I calculated a punter's OVR and was really off, unless I have a bug somewhere I'm not catching...

Sorry Vegas, back to the drawing board for now. I need to get this figured out anyway to be able to figure player evaluations by coaches and draft evals, so will be looking into it more. Will post results if I get something that works for all the positions.

The lowest rated player I am seeing in the default 2008 roster is a WR rated 33, even though in the table the low is 35 for WR

[valvegas1]

Equation is wrong, tried plugging all this into madden amp and am not getting same results as what the rosters say for certain players.
Thought it was ok until I calculated a punter's OVR and was really off, unless I have a bug somewhere I'm not catching...

Sorry Vegas, back to the drawing board for now. I need to get this figured out anyway to be able to figure player evaluations by coaches and draft evals, so will be looking into it more. Will post results if I get something that works for all the positions.

The lowest rated player I am seeing in the default 2008 roster is a WR rated 33, even though in the table the low is 35 for WR

Yeah it's definitely more complex then what you originally had...I do know for fact that the weight of all ratings interact with each other when calculating the overall...I also know that the number of ratings that have weights have an effect on things as well...when I first started testing adjustments, I made some changes to the QB rating weights and even added a couple new ones in but kept the total weight for them all at 13.5 with the high and low threshold still at 89 & 35, in maddens create a player I made a QB with ratings all maxed at 99...his overall was only a 84...Originally there was only 7 ratings holding weight and now I have 9 so i changed the high threshold up to 93 from 89 and it got even worse...with everything maxed out he now held a 79 overall...so i went back in and moved it down to 85 on then the max overall went up to 89...So my final test was to move it to 83 and now what i am getting is tom brady would have an overall of 95 with manning right behind him at 93 and brees at 90 then big ben and warner at 88 and then like 9 more QB ranging from there down to 80...The way i have the weights set I really like that distribution of overalls...the lowest rated QB in the default 08 roster is at like 48 and the highest at 95...most starters are anywhere from 78 to 99 and most second stringers are 65-78 and the rest are likely the third stringers...I think it really matches the real life differences between the elite, great, good,not so good, and the completely horrible QB's...

Anyway i didn't take the time to figure out the formula just tested out resetting what ratings have weights and how much for each position and testing them out in the create a player screen and with the actual players...i am currently done reconfiguring my PORC file and want to test it with a franchise...

I have two questions with this before moving on...the only way i have seen to get the game to recalculate all the overalls is to go into the edit screen for each payer...and since NZA and AMP have different formulas, HOW DO I QUICKLY AND EASILY GET ALL THE OVERALLS CHANGED TO MATCH MY NEW PORC FILE???? and how do i get the custom draft classes to be changed to match it as well???

My goal is to hopefully create a little more reality in how contracts are given as well...it's always annoyed me that in 5-7 years of franchise you have to pay most of your backups 3-5 mil in the skill positions

[StingRay68]

Yeah it's definitely more complex then what you originally had...I do know for fact that the weight of all ratings interact with each other when calculating the overall...I also know that the number of ratings that have weights have an effect on things as well...when I first started testing adjustments, I made some changes to the QB rating weights and even added a couple new ones in but kept the total weight for them all at 13.5 with the high and low threshold still at 89 & 35, in maddens create a player I made a QB with ratings all maxed at 99...his overall was only a 84...Originally there was only 7 ratings holding weight and now I have 9 so i changed the high threshold up to 93 from 89 and it got even worse...with everything maxed out he now held a 79 overall...so i went back in and moved it down to 85 on then the max overall went up to 89...So my final test was to move it to 83 and now what i am getting is tom brady would have an overall of 95 with manning right behind him at 93 and brees at 90 then big ben and warner at 88 and then like 9 more QB ranging from there down to 80...The way i have the weights set I really like that distribution of overalls...the lowest rated QB in the default 08 roster is at like 48 and the highest at 95...most starters are anywhere from 78 to 99 and most second stringers are 65-78 and the rest are likely the third stringers...I think it really matches the real life differences between the elite, great, good,not so good, and the completely horrible QB's...

HOW DO I QUICKLY AND EASILY GET ALL THE OVERALLS CHANGED TO MATCH MY NEW PORC FILE???? and how do i get the custom draft classes to be changed to match it as well???

My goal is to hopefully create a little more reality in how contracts are given as well...it's always annoyed me that in 5-7 years of franchise you have to pay most of your backups 3-5 mil in the skill positions

I think there is something else that gets factored into the OVR that is not in the PORC table. Maybe Tendency type gives weight towards OVR?

Anyway, the short answer to your question is that currently you can't quickly and easily change the ovr
Since the player table has the OVR stored, you would have to recalculate each player either with madden itself or an editor. Since we currently dont have the right formula, you would have to recalculate inside madden.

[redep]

I found this table/site that apparently shows the weighted percentage the ratings have on players in the newer Madden versions when calculating their overall rating.

I know they can't be used as such in the 08 Madden game but maybe somebody can use the table as some sort of referance to find out how player ratings are calculated in Madden 08 for the different positions.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/paine-feature-madden-4.png

[StingRay68]

Test for QB OVR
for each non zero weight, except skip PINW from PORC table (weight / 7) * (player skill rating - 50)

Example from default
PTAW (4/7) * (THA - 50)
PTPW (3.5/7) * (THP - 50)
PAWW (3/7) * (AWR-50)
PSEW (1.5/7) * (SPD-50)
PAGW (.5/7) * (AGI-50)
PBTW (.5/7) * (BTK-50)
Add all the values and then add 28 to the total (QB with all 50s ends up with 28 OVR)
Results can vary a little based on if you round results from each rating or just at the total
Try that with your altered porc table and see if it still works.

[valvegas1]

Test for QB OVR
for each non zero weight, except skip PINW from PORC table (weight / 7) * (player skill rating - 50)

Example from default
PTAW (4/7) * (THA - 50)
PTPW (3.5/7) * (THP - 50)
PAWW (3/7) * (AWR-50)
PSEW (1.5/7) * (SPD-50)
PAGW (.5/7) * (AGI-50)
PBTW (.5/7) * (BTK-50)
Add all the values and then add 28 to the total (QB with all 50s ends up with 28 OVR)
Results can vary a little based on if you round results from each rating or just at the total
Try that with your altered porc table and see if it still works.

Well unfortunately these formulas aren't working...tested Brian Griese and with this formula he should add up to 61.46+28=89.46, game has him at a 74 with my changed settings...then i tested Donovan Mcnabb and he ended up at 66.09+28=94.09, game has him at 85...that was enough for me to see that this formula won't work...I did however discover that the ratings that i added weights to still aren't having any effect on the overall and only the ones that were originally used are...makes me wonder if there is another file that is working with this one to calculate everything...hope this helps...I'm still trying to figure some things out as well...there is a relation between the weights and the high/low distribution also and that seems to be playing a factor in the calculation as well...when the difference between high/low is smaller the overalls get higher and when the difference is larger it makes the overalls get lower, i do know that much

EDIT: Now that I think of it I was using the rating weights i added and the game isn't so I'm double checking them now

EDIT: NM they still don't work out just using madden default scheme

[StingRay68]

Well unfortunately these formulas aren't working...tested Brian Griese and with this formula he should add up to 61.46+28=89.46, game has him at a 74 with my changed settings...then i tested Donovan Mcnabb and he ended up at 66.09+28=94.09, game has him at 85...that was enough for me to see that this formula won't work...I did however discover that the ratings that i added weights to still aren't having any effect on the overall and only the ones that were originally used are...makes me wonder if there is another file that is working with this one to calculate everything...hope this helps...I'm still trying to figure some things out as well...there is a relation between the weights and the high/low distribution also and that seems to be playing a factor in the calculation as well...when the difference between high/low is smaller the overalls get higher and when the difference is larger it makes the overalls get lower, i do know that much

EDIT: Now that I think of it I was using the rating weights i added and the game isn't so I'm double checking them now

EDIT: NM they still don't work out just using madden default scheme

I wasn't even considering the hi/low numbers. I put in a custom OVR calculator into amp based on the porc table values. If we ever figure out the equation then it can be put to use. That equation is pretty accurate for the default values, so we're missing something.
Speed is around .21 for qb and c it is .16 so we're missing a relation between the porc weights and how it is getting a total weight value per position.

[valvegas1]

I wasn't even considering the hi/low numbers. I put in a custom OVR calculator into amp based on the porc table values. If we ever figure out the equation then it can be put to use. That equation is pretty accurate for the default values, so we're missing something.
Speed is around .21 for qb and c it is .16 so we're missing a relation between the porc weights and how it is getting a total weight value per position.

Well I tried using the same exact formula only i used (rating - 35) instead and now im falling right on or with +/- 2 points of everyones overall...

EDIT: if i add them all after applying rounding principles then they are falling pretty dead on using 35 instead of 50...gonna test a player from every position now and see if it continues to hold true

EDIT: Tested (weight/7) * (rating - 35) on several different positions and it works beautifully...here's what else i figured out through this...35 is pulled from the PRDL field...also, the rounding in madden is different than standard so don't use standard rounding principles...I believe the PRDH number controls the threshold for when a decimal gets rounded up or down...so if it's 89 than 23.93 will round up to 24 and 23.85 would round down to 23...this is why when i was adjusting it down it makes overalls go up a few and when you adjust it higher they go down a few...also madden is only calculating the fields that originally had weights in them so I'm guessing there's no changing what holds weight and we can only adjust the weights themselves...which is fine by me even though there was a few i thought need to be included in certain positions...

[StingRay68]

EDIT: Tested (weight/7) * (rating - 35) on several different positions and it works beautifully...here's what else i figured out through this...35 is pulled from the PRDL field...also, the rounding in madden is different than standard so don't use standard rounding principles...I believe the PRDH number controls the threshold for when a decimal gets rounded up or down...

That isnt right either. If player had all 35s he would be basically 0 and raising one rating to say 50 should raise his OVR, it doesn't. Which means at 35 these ratings are negative.
They are all based on 50 being the median or adding 0 to ovr.

I think I know what's going on with them now, give me a couple days to make sure it works with what the table shows, and I will explain how this works and why when you change the table you get varying results.